Wednesday, January 12, 2011

F451 Fishbowl #3: Pages 40-63

Welcome to your third fishbowl!

At this point, you should be picking up the pace and challenging yourself a bit on the outer circle. What kind of challenges should we take on, you ask? Try these:

Challenge #1: Bring a quotation from the reading into at least one of your posts.
Challenge #2: Get into a hotseat, if only for a brief moment.
Challenge #3: Try to offer a few more comments; your typing should sound like rapid fire.

116 comments:

  1. Do you think that Clarisse really died?

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  2. On page 56 when it says, "Beatty went on as if nothing had happened", why do you think he acted like he didn;t see the book?

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  3. Krysta- Its weird and mysterious as to what happened to Clarisse. Im not really even sure what happened to her. I think she disappeared, but I think its not as bad as death like Montag thinks.

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  4. Krysta-I do not think that she really died I think he lied so they do not go after her and kill her I think he was protecting her.

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  5. Krysta- With how messed up their society is and how the government is in complete control im not sure if she died or not. She may have though.

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  6. Why does Mildred forget everything but then she can remember the specific detail about Clarisse being dead?

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  7. Krysta:

    I don't think she did. I think Mildred might have lied just because she was jealous of Clarisse and she thought that Montag liked her.

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  8. Krysta-
    I don't think Clarisse really died because there hasn't been a lot of information on her death. I also have a feeling that she will come up again later in the book because she has played a pretty big role.

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  9. "she ran forward, seized a book, and ran toward the kitchen incinerator. Does this line symbolize any thing

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  10. On page 55: I thought it was really interesting that Beatty was describing what the past used to be like. But how do you think he knew what the past was like if he wasn't there, and everything has been changed so much and so fast?

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  11. Krysta
    I think that Clarisse didn't die because she seemed to be thinking a lot and starting to figure things out so she and her family were moved or captured or killed.

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  12. Kyrsta- I agree with Brad, I think she probably just disappeared for a little bit but I think she will come back at some point in the book.

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  13. Do you since Montag's wife now knows about the books she will stay with him?

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  14. On page 54 it is says, "Classics cut to fit fifteen-minute radio shows, then cut again to fill a two-minute book column..." How does that have anything to do with banning books?

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  15. Why do you think Montag keeps testing Mildred's memory when he know that she can never remember?

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  16. Krysta L I don't think she died because she has had such a big role in the book and has influenced Montag so much.

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  17. Alex-
    I think Beatty didn't want Mantag to know that someone else knows he has a book.

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  18. I think that in this society it feels like people are robotic, and maybe Guy and Mildred were just sort of paired with each other...

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  19. If Clarisse is not dead then were do you think she is?

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  20. Flynne- I think this symbolizes he knowledge to the rules. It was just her first instinct to burn the book whether she wanted to or not.

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  21. Krysta- I don't believe that Clairisse really died because her whole family is missing, isn't it?

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  22. Flynne:

    I think that when Mildred grabbed the book, she was going to burn it, but Montag stopped her.

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  23. Jessica- Maybe in the past he too read a few books and learned a thing or 2. He told Montag that it was only curiosity that firemen bring home boos sometimes so maybe he did in the past.

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  24. Alex- I think Beatty went on like nothing happened becuase he cares about Montag so he does not want Montag to get in trouble.

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  25. Sarah-
    I think that Mildred will stay with Montag because I think that learning and reading the books will help to make her less insane and suicidal.

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  26. Sarah:

    I think Clarisse and her family moved because of the rough conditions, how everyone thought she was crazy and she didnt go to school or have friends.

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  27. Flynne- I think that part is significant because it shows that she is afraid. And her fear is like a small part of the whole communities fear.

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  28. Sarah i think that because she ran and tried to get rid of the books that she will stay with him. when he says " whether you like it or not we're in it." I think that is how it is going to be they are going to be together of a bit.

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  29. Why couldn't Mildred or Montag remember how they met? I would think that would be kind of an important moment in his life. But what I do notice is that things that would normally be important lose significance in this book.

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  30. On page 44 after Montag asks Mildred when they met Montag starts to think about what he remembers about Mildred " The most significant memory he had of Mildred really was of a little girl in a forest without tress." Why no trees and what does this symbolize?

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  31. Why did Beatty come back to there house?

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  32. Why is it that firemen can have a book for 24 hours and then they have to burn them. That doesn't make sense to me if we know that it's against the law to have books at all.

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  33. Flynne
    I think it symbolizes how the government and is controlling people and making them think what they want and do things without hesitation. so like everyone is told that books are bad and illegal but know one is alowed to look at books so they all think they are bad and will just try and do what they are told.

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  34. On page 45, when it says "A great thunderstorm of sound gushed from the walls..." I can never tell if things are actually happening or if they are there for metaphorical reasons, but did this actually happen?

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  35. Sarah S
    I think that their marriages may have been arranged but it feels like everything is so artificial and that their love is completely fake. How can they know what real love is when they live in a world where nothing is really real?

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  36. Montag said he was certain he would not cry when Mildred dies, Why?

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  37. Ariel:

    I think there were no trees because since most of the houses burned down the trees burned down with them, or they burned trees because trees provided paper for books.

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  38. sarah- thats a god question. I was wondering the same thing. I wonder if he was coming back to talk to Montag about bringing home books from fires because they only talked about the subject for a few minutes before he left.

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  39. The entire reason books were banned was made clear by Beatty. books are controversial, they offend people. according to them, we cant have people be offended, we cant have people feel superior than anyone else. so, the books are banned, the government takes away their ability to think, and dream, and innovate. as they say,


    Ignorance is Bliss.

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  40. Peyton-
    maybe it is just because since firemen seem to be well trusted and respected, they are just supposed to be mocking books or something for a little.

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  41. Ariel- Maybe the no tree's symbolize, that there is no life because tree's are life. But i am not sure.

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  42. Krysta-
    I think that Montag tries to get her to remember that hoping one time she will be able to and remember what life was like before she became suicidal. I think he asks her to remember sometimes also so that he doesn't forget.

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  43. On page 45 when Montag states "He was a victim of a concussion." Was he really having a concussion?

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  44. Alex- Maybe because he is really not in love with her. he has to be with her but does not lover her.

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  45. Sarah
    Clarisse could be anywhere from what we know of her. She could be walking the streets and or her family could have ran away to elude the authorities. Like Beatty said, they have had this problem with them before so it could happen again.

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  46. Peyton- I was wondering that also, but I guess it just shows firemen have certain privileges.

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  47. Alex B
    I think it's because their relationship is numb. I think Montag is starting to realize no one in society is like a real person. They function like they have no feeling and he now realizes that he is married to someone who doesn't truly care about him so why should he care about her?

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  48. Sarah S- The metaphor they are talking about there is the jet planes flying over. Its saying that they are really loud.

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  49. Why does Beatty pretend like he doesn't see the book? And why does Beatty come back to the door after he leaves?

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  50. Jessie-
    I was thinking the exact same thing. I definitely agree that everything feels artificial in this society-even people's lives seem fake, like they are an empty person.

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  51. Peyton
    It doesn't make sense to me either but its just like our society where the police can speed and carry a gun because they are tying to keep people safe so maybe in F-451 they think that it is a way so somehow keep people safe.

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  52. On page 47 how did Mildred just forget about telling him about how Clarisse might have died? What is wrong with Clarisse and her memory?

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  53. Jenny-
    I think Beatty was trying to say that the reason for banned books happened because of advancing technology. On p. 58 Beatty says, "It didn't come from the Government down. There was no dictum, no declaration, no censorship, to start with, no! Technology, mass exploitation, and minority pressure carried the trick, thank God."

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  54. Is Mildred subconsciously depressed? Or does she continue taking pills because she forgets that she already took the correct amount?

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  55. When Montag refers to relatives in the wall through out these pages what does he mean?

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  56. i dont know do u think she died?

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  57. on page 62 Beatty says "I've read a few in my time, to know what i was about, and the books say nothing!" If you can not read books then how has Beatty read books why is it ok for him to read them?

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  58. Jenny-
    I think Beatty pretends not to see the book because he realizes that it is wrong to burn books, but since he is the captain he can't say anything.

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  59. Jenny- i think he just does not to believe that he reads books because he has come to know him. When the are burning the houses they never talk about them knowing them and it would be a lot harder if they know the person they are burning alive

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  60. Ariel-
    I believe the relatives are part of the program that Mildred watches.

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  61. Brendan-
    I think that Mildred forgets to tell Montag about Clarisse because death is so common that it isn't very shocking that another teenager has died. Mildred also never meet Clarisse so she probably had no idea how much Clarisse has affected Montag.

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  62. Ariel:

    I think that Montag is referring to the TV show, and that show is talking about a family.

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  63. Sarah S~
    On page 45 Mildred and Montag were watching TV so that is what Montag was refering to.

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  64. page 43: Do you think that there is something significant about MIldred and Montag not being able to remember how they met? Mildred seems to be having a lot of memory issues, with the pills and everything, do you think that society has something to do with that? Like in Harrison Bergeron?

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  65. Is knowledge worth it? are we happier not knowing certain things? Absolutely.

    But that is not why we learn, why we are curious about things. we learn not for ourselves, but for others, so we can help and improve the world.

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  66. Alex B
    I think that Montag and Mildred's relationship was very vague and they had not intimacy and/ or friendship to hold the relationship together. Without that I it's very hard to feel sorry, although they are married. :(

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  67. Brad- i don't think that she was alive to start with.

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  68. Jessie- I think it is a combination of both, I defiantly think she is depressed, but I also think because of her depression she forgets that she already took pills.

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  69. Jessie S,

    I think that Mildred is unhappy because she is stuck in this world that is so controlling and also her husband is always gone and her and Montag don't get along very well.

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  70. Ariel
    Montag is referring to Mildreds relationship with the t.v.s. Somehow she can interact with the characters and since she is there so much, the characters are called her relatives because she communicates with them more than other living people.

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  71. Alex B- Maybe he has lost some of the feelings for her over time sot that is why he would not cry. Although i am confused because he was really upset and if i remember correctable he cried when she over dosed on pulls and she was so close to death so why would he not cry is she died.

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  72. Ariel-
    I'm pretty sure it is just another script thing, but it might be a virtual way to talk to people, sort of like video chat? That was just my guess.

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  73. Alex B, In this book, not knowing a lot is better because when you know more about the world they live in, you get curious like Montag, and that gets you in trouble

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  74. Why does Mildred want Montag to go to work even though he is sick? What is her hidden intent?

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  75. Jessie S-
    I think that Mildred does not remember alot because there are not really any good fun memories but i wonder if that is going to change know that she knows about the books.

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  76. Jessie-
    I think Mildred is actually depressed because I believe that most people in the book are subconsciously aware of the fact the burning books and changing history to something that never happened is wrong.

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  77. On page 44 he was talking about how he wasn't sure if he loved Mildred, why would Montag Marry someone he doesn't love and how do you think society effects people's marriages? Does it keep the couples seperated and apart?

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  78. Sarah-
    I think that Beatty broke the law like Montag did and took books because he was curious. Beatty read the books and felt like they didn't mean or change anything and that is why he stopped reading. Beatty sounds like he is going to give Montag 24 hours to realize that burning books are the right thing and come back to his job or they are going to burn his house down just like they do to other people who are reading.

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  79. When Montag had to burn the books in the old lady house he got really upset but also curious because the old lady wanted to die with her books and would not leave. Why?

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  80. Jessie:

    I think that Mildred is unhappy because she doesn't quite have a good relationship with anyone let alone her own husband. I think the depression causes her to forget things easily.

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  81. (Mrs. Leclaire's question)

    I think that they are taught not to think, and to believe exactly what they are told. Because from the sound of it, most who are still alive were born into this society, so its the only thing they ever knew. They don't know how another person would be different.

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  82. Ariel-
    I think Montag if referring to how his relatives were burned in the house so now their berried permanently in the house.

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  83. On page 62 Beatty says "We let the firemen keep the book for twenty-four hours." Why do you think they only let the firemen have a chance to read books without getting in trouble.

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  84. In this society do you think books are worth dieing for?

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  85. When Montag is going through the books will he think books are important and if he does and tell's others do you think other's will believe with him?

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  86. Jamie M
    I think that Mildred wants Montag to go to work just for her own greed. She mentions how they need money and she fears losing her possessions. Maybe she thinks that if he stays home this one time, it will lead to him never going back to work at all.

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  87. Do you think that all people could be curious? Do you think everyone could rebel against this sort of society; or do you think some people could just naturally agree with it, not being brainwashed?

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  88. Ariel- I think he was curious because of the fact that she would burn with her books. He wasn't sure why. I think he is now more curious about books because he must wonder now hat is in the books, what is so important in them that a lady would die with them?

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  89. On page 60 it states that 10 minutes after a man is dead he is nothing but black dust because they were thrown in the incinerator. It seems to me that the solution for any problem in F-451 is to burn it and forget it. How did they decide this is the best way to fix problems?

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  90. Do you think Montag will burn the books after he reads them and keep his promise to his wife?

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  91. Jessie S.
    That's what i thought too. I also thought maybe because Mildred wants the fourth wall.

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  92. Do you think that since Beatty wants to take all the bad things and make everyone "equal" will make everything/ everyone go wrong like it did in Harrison Bergeron?

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  93. On page 51 they are talking about a woman that was burned to death with her books. why wouldn't they go in a try to get her out.

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  94. Brendan:

    That's a good question. In some ways, i think think that they are worth it because if the people just let the fireman destroy the books, there wouldnt be any advances in technology. But then again, why risk your life for a book?

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  95. Ariel-
    After so many years of burning books the firemen never had to deal with the owner of the books let alone burn them, so seeing the woman wanting to burn with her books was a wake-up call for Montag. He sees, after that moment, that maybe there are useful facts and stories in the books that may not be harmful.

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  96. Alex Boemker- Not all the time do we learn for others instead of ourselves. For example, if you need to do a hard drive transfer on the xbox 360 you have to learn how so you can transfer it for yourself. That is not learning for someone else and yes it may be useful to help someone else in the future but at the point where you needed to learn how to do it you learned it for yourself not for somebody else.

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  97. Do you think that the whole world would be effected by this sort of society? For example, would there still be international wars? Or when they refer to the jet bombers, are there only civil wars going on?

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  98. Jamie M,

    This is a good point. But I think that Mildred is just the type to want to be left alone and watch TV. Also she is pretty depressed about life.

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  99. i dont think he is going to burn the books when he is through with them i think he will just pass them on and let everybody learn.

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  100. Matt-
    I think since books are there problem and burning them seems to be the solution that they just think all of there problems can be solved that way.

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  101. Peyton M.-
    I think Beatty already has that view and is leaning towards that type of society.

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  102. Flynne:

    I think that they punished the woman by leaving her in the house, but also she didn't want to leave her house because when Montag asked her to come she told him she would rather stay.

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  103. Flynne- They didnt care if she got out alive or dead because they only cared that the books got burned, and left the lady to do whatever

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  104. Matt J
    I think that they just burn everything that is "unwanted" is because there is no evidence. It becomes dust and indistinguishable from other dust.

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  105. Sarah
    I think that if montage shows anyone a book that they will react the same way that Mildrid did by grabbing the book and running to the incinerator.

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  106. i think it would make him md and start a out rage he would hate the airports

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  107. SarahS I think that could definitley happen because I think if they learn from these books they will gain the power to influence others.

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  108. Flynn,

    I think on page 51 they are talking about the old lady that they burned with her books earlier in the book.

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  109. Krysta-
    I think firemen can read because at some point every fireman must wonder if what he is doing is right and by letting them read they can decide for themselves. I think that Beatty expects every fireman to come back to his job after their talk because on page 63 when Montag tells Beatty he's still might not come in Beatty sounds extremely surprised.

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  110. Peyton-I think there will be a bit of down fall but the way the government has been set up seems like they control everyone like puppets.

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  111. Sarah- I don't think that Montag will burn the books in the end, because it seems like he really didn't want to burn them in the first place.

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  112. Sarah S
    I believe that no matter what, the people are always influenced by other people's decisions. So that makes everyone influencing each other. No matter whether someone says they will rebel or if they will peacefully agree, everyone will like to follow everyone else. In my opinion at least.

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  113. When Montag took the book from the woman's house that they burned, did Beatty see him take it?

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  114. Why does Milred think that she is happy when she really isn't?

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  115. “Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

    -Benjamin Franklin

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  116. Is there ever a time in this book where Montag is completely happy with his life and himself?

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