Wednesday, January 26, 2011

F451 Fishbowl #6: Pages 102-139

Welcome to your second-to-last fishbowl discussion! By this time, you should be doing the following:

1. Incorporating quotes into at least one of your responses, but preferrably more.

2. Responding thoroughly and frequently from the beginning of the discussion to the end.

3. Considering jumping into a hotseat.

Enjoy!

93 comments:

  1. Did Beatty have the plan the whole time to burn Montag's house and turn him in?

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  2. what were all the firemen thinking when it was Montag's house that they got called to, to burn?

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  3. On page 134, Montag says "and out of the sky, fluttering, came the helicopter like a grotesque flower". Why do you think the helicopter is being referred to as a grotesque flower?

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  4. On page 106, does the dream Beatty describes to Montag mean something? Is Beatty lying about the dream?

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  5. Jamie- I think he realized Montag was getting too interested in books and then he decided he would burn down his house and turn him in

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  6. When Faber says "I feel alive for the first time in years." does this suggest that like Clarisse was there to open Montag's eyes, Montag was then there for Faber?

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  7. Why do you think Montag came to the conclusion to kill Beatty? Eventhough he thought that he wanted to die like on page 122 when Montag says "Beatty wanted to die."

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  8. This happened a page before our reading assignment of 102-139 but why do you think Montag freaked out on Mildreds friends?

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  9. Sarah-
    The firemen seemed actually kind of speechless and their actions weren't described in detail. Maybe they are curious now.

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  10. Jamie- I think he did because that is why he acted like he didn't care when he saw the book under the pillow, because he already had this planned.

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  11. Alex B- I think it was being referred to as a grotesque flower to represent how that society is. It seems all neat from the surface level, but it actually is pretty bad

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  12. Jamie-
    No, I don't think he planned it but he definitely was expecting for it to happen it Montag.

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  13. Jamie,
    I think Beatty did almost know or at least have a hunch. He seemed very sly about everything conversation he had with Montag as if it was a game with him.

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  14. @jamie Montag was starting to read more and more and get way to interested and Beatty made the choice to turn him in.

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  15. Jamie:

    I think that Beatty knew all along that Montag had books because of the way Montag always acted.

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  16. Jamie, I dont think he had that intent at first but after awhile when he got really into books then he changed his mind.

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  17. Krysta,
    I almost think Montag's going insane. He now has his mind set on this cause and it seems as if its driven him crazy.

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  18. Peyton
    Yes i think that Clarisse open Montag's eyes by asking him if he was happy and Montag opened Faber's eyes.

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  19. On page 109, what does the bat flying above the beetle symbolize?

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  20. Jamie- I don't believe that he planned to bust Montag and burn his house but he wanted to test him.

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  21. Krysta-
    I think he got to the conclusion to kill Beatty because he burned his house down and Beatty hasn't been nice to Montag.

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  22. Ty,
    Maybe the bat symbolizes Montag and the beetle represents the ugly world he is looking down on now.

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  23. @krysta, I agree with jessie that Montag might be starting to go insane and not know what he's doing anymore.

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  24. What do you think Montag will do once he reaches the end of the river?

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  25. Krysta-I agree with Jessie because I think that Montag was telling himself that to make himself feel better about the situation and he wants his decision to kill Beatty seem rational.

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  26. Jamie,
    There are so many clues leading up to the fact that Beatty was going to burn down Montag's house, I was thinking this the entire time I was reading the book, but it took until now to occur, one example was when Beatty sent the mechanical hound on Montag, so he sent him many obvious clues.

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  27. Brendan:

    I think Montag didn't really like Mildred's friends, so he tried to get them to leave. Maybe he felt that Mildred spent most of her time with her friends then with him.

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  28. What did they do with Monatg's wife?

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  29. Brendan-
    I think Montag freaked out because he is stepping way out of his comfort zone in doing this plan with Faber so he was just uptight.

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  30. Jamie- I think that Beatty had the idea to do so, but I don't think that he did something like set Montag up for this, or at least not purposefully.

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  31. I am kind of confused when it says, "Other salamanders were roaring, their engines far away". Why are firetrucks referred to as salamanders?

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  32. On page 134 Montag referred to the Hound as and electric hound instead of a mechanical hound. What do you think he was trying to say when he referred to it like that?

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  33. Krysta-
    I think Montag will try to rebuild his life or maybe live with the wanted professors hiding by the river.

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  34. How is controversy good for society? In 1949, The FCC instituted this:

    http://www.museum.tv/eotvsection.php?entrycode=fairnessdoct

    It was known as the "Fairness Doctrine" and it meant that in radio broadcasts every viewpoint had to be fairly and equally represented, and if one side felt cheated, it meant for a healthy fine for the broadcaster. this caused the radio stations to shy away from controversial topics, creating the image of the 50's that we see today, of the nuclear family in suburbia with little Timmy and Sally. this policy ended in the 80's, which led to an influx of opinionated talk shows, controversy riddled topics freely being discussed, and (more recently) a lot of loud people on the TV. Is controversy good after all?

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  35. Sarah- Montag's wife left him, maybe because she just couldn't handle what he was doing.

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  36. Alex B,
    I think it's just another reptile reference of Bradbury's. Everything that causes destruction is some sort of snake or beast.

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  37. Sarah~
    They didn't do anything to his wife. When the firemen arrived she just got into their car and left.

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  38. I think its funny that the firetruck is called the salamander because salamanders are kind of sly in a way and firetrucks are big and loud.

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  39. Why did Mildred turn Montag in? Would Montag have done the same thing if Mildred was in his place?

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  40. Krysta,
    I was thinking that also, I mean there isn't much that he can do because he is a wanted fugitive and everyone is looking for him. Plus, now he has killed Beatty so there is really no return for Montag. Maybe he'll wait out there until things calm down.

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  41. alex- the salamanders i think represent how they are gross and sneaky, maybe how the firemen could be. And maybe they just symbolize the firefighters and how they truly are.

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  42. Ty,
    I don't think that he is yet but he is going though his journey. He's almost on a fine line of the villain just because of his mindset.

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  43. Timmy-
    I think Montag is a hero because he changed the way this society thinks about books.

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  44. On page 128 it says, "For no reason at all in the world they would have killed me."

    Does this refer back to the way Clarisse described the other teenagers earlier in the book?

    Why does Montag think they killed Clarisse?

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  45. On page 110 when the firemen pull up to montag's house and stops and Beatty asks Montag if something is wrong and Montag says "why, we've stopped if front of my house." Is Montag playing dumb as to why they are at his house or does he mean that there shouldn't be anything wrong because he knows that this day would come.

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  46. Nouhad- I think Mildred turned in Montag because she was sick of the books and she did not want to deal with it or maybe be associated with it. And i do not think Montag would turn Mildred in if he was in that position.

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  47. Nouhad,
    I think that Mildred is just selfish and only cares about her life and not Montag's. I think Montag wouldn't turn her in because he believes in older values and supporting his spouse.

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  48. Nouhad-
    I think Mildred turned Montag in because she was afraid of change and loved her parlor so much she really did not care about Montag's fate. And no, Montag would not have turned Mildred in because he can learn to live with change.

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  49. Timothy G.
    I think that Montag is a hero. He has changed the way this society views books.

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  50. Sarah,
    Montag's wife turned him in and she left in a beetle-taxi with a suitcase, on page 114. So she most likely fled from Montag because she knew this was going to happen.

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  51. @Timmy I do think Montag is a hero it was kind of predictable he would be anyways...but He helped change the view on books, which is a huge deal.

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  52. Nouhad- I think Mildred turned him in because she thought it was hurting their relationship, and maybe she just didn't agree with what he was doing and that was her only solution to the problem.

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  53. Matt- I think that he was almost trying to play the dumb game, and try to make them think that maybe it was a mistake for them to be at his house.

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  54. Here is an interesting passage form the salamander's wikipedia page on their connection to fire:

    "Numerous legends have developed around the salamander over the centuries, many related to fire. This connection likely originates from the tendency of many salamanders to dwell inside rotting logs. When placed into a fire, the salamander would attempt to escape from the log, lending to the belief that salamanders were created from flames — a belief that gave the creature its name."

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  55. Jamie:

    I think that this quote does refer to the way Clarisse described the teenagers because she described them as different, and kind of violent too. I think Clarisse's family had books, so she got killed and Montag didn't know that.

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  56. Do you think Montag is following the Heroes Journey?

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  57. Did Montag know that eventually he wouldn't be able to hide his books anymore and that he would get caught and is he trying to use this as a way to escape their society any way that he can?

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  58. Nouhad~
    I think that Mildred turned Montag in because she just couldn't handle what he was doing to himself and to her anymore. And yes I think that Montag would turn her in if their positions had been reversed and Montag was like a fireman should be. Even though he loves his wife.

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  59. If beatty did want Montag to kill him, why would he even want to die in the first place?

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  60. Brad- That is kind of ironic... Maybe the salamander is supposed to represent something big and loud like a firetruck

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  61. Kyle-
    I don't think he is following the heroes journey but I think he is still a hero. I don't think every hero does follow the journey so even though he isn't he can still be a hero.

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  62. Kyle
    I think that Montag is following part of the heroes journey but stays away from some part of the journey because he does't want to be a hero.

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  63. Timothy- I agree with Kyle, I do think he is a hero because in some ways, he changed the whole society, some people might agree with him and others might not, but either way he changed the way everyone thinks of books.

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  64. Matt- I think Montag did almost see it coming, but in some way i almost think that he wanted it to, to maybe try to change some of the minds in his society about how they feel about books.

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  65. @kyle that is similar to timmy's question, yes I do think he is somewhat following it, there is a dilema the banned books and he is trying to un-ban them.

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  66. Kyle,
    I think he's following it but he's on the edge because at this point, it's like he's started over or had a new push to complete his task. He already had the drive but now it's almost driven him insane.

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  67. Do you think that Montag will take down some of the other firemen by placing books in their house?

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  68. Matt,
    I think he was playing dumb because when he took the book from the woman's house, he knew that he would be running the risk of getting caught with the book. It said in previous chapters that Beatty went to Montag's house to go and tell Montag that he had 1 day to burn the book, and when he didn't. Montag was running that risk. So he might have had that thought in the back of his mind...

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  69. What do you think is going through Montag's house when he is burning his house down?

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  70. Why doesn't Montag resist burning his own house?

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  71. Sarah-
    Probably because he was sick of living in a world where books are forbidden and the people are like robots.

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  72. Kyle:

    In a way Montag is kind of following he hero's journey because of how he is trying to save something he cares about, but also he isn't following the hero's journey because he is doing something against the law so he is kind of a villain.

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  73. Sarah~
    Maybe Beatty wanted Montag to kill him because maybe he to is in love with reading books and he just couldn't live any longer with all of the guilt that he was carrying around with him.

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  74. Jamie- No i do not really think that Montag will do that. And bring others down with him.

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  75. Jamie,
    I don't think he will. His purpose isn't really to get revenge but rather fix his life and I think that might be irrelevant to his goal.

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  76. Sarah
    Maybe Beatty is tired of his life and doesn't want to be who he is, maybe Beatty feels like people dislike him because of his job or maybe he wants peace and doesn't feel happy.

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  77. Do you think that the mechanical hound will end up finding Montag?

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  78. Timmy- yes, I think Montag is a hero, he stood up and fought for what he believed. I kind of guessed from the beginning that he was going to be a hero.

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  79. Timmy-
    I think he didn't want to resist to show to Beatty that he has the courage to burn down every house even if its his own.

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  80. Timothy- Because i think that Montag almost found it relieving and refreshing.

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  81. TimothyG-

    He didn't care about his house, he didn't care about anything at that point, he had pretty much given up.

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  82. Nouhad- I agree with you because I also think that Montag is following certain parts of the hero's journey, but other parts are controversial also (going against the law). But could that fit into the hero's journey as a cause?

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  83. Peyton,
    Maybe but I think Montag might defeat it. If he follows the hero's journey then defeating his nemesis is one of his steps. Although there are numerous things in his life he hates, the Hound is one of his greatest fears.

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  84. Sarah- I think there was a little bit of everything in his mind. He was probably feeling like he failed since he had to burn down his house, but proud that he had come so far. Upset because it is his home, but glad to be rid of the things about it he didn't like.

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  85. Peyton- Yes I do think it will find him, because that is what the mechanical hound is for, its wouldn't just give up.

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  86. Timmy
    Maybe Montag enjoys it because he is like killing his old life and leaving behide something that caused so much damage and pain to him and maybe he feels like it will make him truely happy and give him a sense of being able to control his own life.

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  87. Peyton- I think if the hound finds Montag that he will just destroy it because he is mad because of what has happened in the past 30 pages.

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  88. Peyton~
    No I do not think that he will end up fighting the hound because I think that Montag got completely got rid of his scent when he changed clothes and jumped into the river and I don't think that the hound would be able to follow him down the river.

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  89. After Completing the reading I have a couple questions. Since Montag got away will he find Clarisse and her uncle for help to help rebel against society? Is the reason Montag Keeps blaming his hand because he refuses to take resposability for his actions, and he wont accept that he is the on rebelling? So he basically needs to blame his actions on something. Why was Beaty pushing Montag's buttons? Why did he make Montag burn down his own home? Was the reason he made him burn down his own home because he wanted Montag to retaliate on him? Did Beaty want to die? I was also confused on what happense to faber because i remember I think it was Beaty but he said they could track the seashell to find where Faber was and i got kind of confused?

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  90. (Abesnt Responce) Jamie- I think that Beatty did have the plan to burn down Montag's house ever since he figured out that Montag had a book. Although it doesn't make much sense because beatty seemed to have read plenty of books in his life time, and he said that Montag was allowed to read one.
    TimothyG- In my opinion, Montag is definately a hero; especially to this society. Clairisse is the one that opened his eyes to the world around him, and he used that to make a differnce in his life. He is one more person to keep the knowledge of books alive.
    Sarah- I thnk that Beatty would have wanted to die in the first place because he knew deep down that what he was doing was bad, he just couldn't do anything to stop it, and maybe he didn't want to stop it
    After reading this section of reading, I thought that it was a really important part of the book. It was pretty much the climax, because Montag really discovered who he is and what he has to do for the society.

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  91. payton:I dont think that the hounds will come after montag beacuse montag is a main charachter its not a good way to end that person its not a good thing to happen to the story.

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